Interview With Marc Keating

hi this is Bob Santos founder of tech
connector tech connector is a
marketplace in campaign management
platform of Best of Breed account based
marketing lead generation solutions
we’ve partnered with a serious decision
summit to bring you wisdom from leading
account based marketing thought leaders
to that end I’m happy to introduce you
to Mark Keating chief innovation officer
at Stine IAS when Mark joined Stine in
2005 he was tasked with transforming
into the most digitally advanced b2b
marketing agency around mark it’s a
pleasure to speak with you how are you
today yeah I’m good pop I’m having a
good day so far looking forward to the
chat and honks we invited me to take
part well it sounds like it’s a very
special day in over there on the other
side of the pond it’s actually a
beautiful sunny day it is at the moment
but that can easily change you know so
it’s always rains in Manchester so who
knows what could end up in two hours
alright that’s always a surprise anyway
it’s a pleasure so want to speak with
you when about one of my favorite topics
account-based marketing and wanted to
get your take before we start if you can
give a little bit of a background so you
know we have an understanding of where
you’re coming from and what your
perspective is around maybea yeah yeah
sure
well my sort of background individually
you know it’s sort of originally in
publishing I used to work for IDG
launched a magazine that many years ago
called the web which was in the mid
nineties and that was kind of really
where I kind of got the experience is
kind of working with the internet
digital kind of website and you know and
I’m not sort of caught my interest
really in terms of what I do now and it
sparked me to set up an agency which was
quiet later on by Stan is I’m going back
for the 15 years ago now my sort of role
in the last 15 years since joining to
Don is has been looking at helping
clients with go to market strategy which
is your strategic planning looking at
align in the right marketing technology
the right data and analytics integration
and then you know I sort of you know
bump into a VM if you like and from the
context of helping sort clients with
their strategic plans and how they
integrate it there within that sort of
wider you know kind of marketing
strategy beautiful great background I
love it and I started in publishing too
so I get the whole the value of digital
and the targeting and the analytics and
so forth is beautiful
so ABM basically the idea is you can
just go up by some IBM technology and
implement it and there you go is that
how it works
sorry what was our ten bucks I don’t
hook slushee that okay a cow face
marketing how do i how do I get a
campaign going do I just decide I’m
going to do it and then just go buy some
software buy some solution and go do it
and well I think you know we look it’s
or technology you know at the enabler
for IBM you know it’s hard to kind of
ABM it’s got to come down to and you’re
having the right strategies in place and
you know when it comes to the kind of
engagements that we have with sort of
clients and you know typically that kind
of works you know at different levels
really so you know we have clients that
are doing ABM more from an until
perspective you know focusing on you
know key accounts that are existing
customers and they’re looking to kind of
increase your wallet and you grow those
accounts and it’s our role to help kind
of activate those strategies in market
you know we get involved with clients
that are looking to enhance the
frameworks the processes the engagement
plans that they’re looking to use across
different accounts and we help clients
from the strategic perspective which is
where we start a lot of engagements
which is year doing that account
search helping with the sound
development messaging content alignment
irrelevant to either you know an account
of one or a cluster of accounts or
accounts for in a particular industry
and and also you know how do we sort of
align once we’ve defined our strategies
you know how do we start to align the
right technology the right media
channels to deliver those effective ABN
programs you know kind of inter market
but I think you know where we get sort
of most involved with clients is when it
comes more to that external activation
so you know helping to acquire you know
new customers net new logos and you know
how we sort of integrate account based
marketing within the wider you know
going to market plans and into the
campaign strategies you know so we come
at it from kind of different angles
depending on you know where the client
is and their level of ABN maturity you
know and how much they want to you know
integrate it with the wider going to
market plans which you know from our
perspective you know we don’t see ABM
you know as a separate set of kind of
strategies we see it as something has to
be you know completely integrated into a
wider and your communications plan and
you know where it is delivered it as a
siloed kind of activity and I think
that’s where and you don’t get the best
value the best return and you know it
can get lost within them you know the
wider setters for strategies beautiful
so the ABM is part of overall theme of
things it’s not a separate program no I
mean you know when we sort of engaged
clients you know either clients that new
to ABM or you know I’ve been involved
with the ABM for you know maybe number
of years and then it was sophisticated
you know they’re very much true to it
just because I think you know the hype
in the market of what ABM has become as
a and a defined strategy kind of on its
own I think they they believe that the
right way to approach it
and I think from our perspective
you know you have to yes it had its own
approach its own set of processes you
know it’s got to be completely aligned
and you know with sales and they’ve got
to be integrated it’s got to be aligned
with a divided marketing programs but
and you know it has to be four as part
of it connected wider kind of strategy
and you know and and I think you know
something else that we try to look at
particularly with ABM is that it’s not
just about kind of outbound approaches
and that account targeting in the
outbound account engagement but you know
how do you start to build you know an
ABM inbound strategy which enables you
to kind of intercept and you know people
as you start to enter that buying
process they did actual research and
make sure you know that you’ve got the
processes in place the frameworks to
intercept those people and and map them
to your do right and you know internal
structure in sales process to kind of
maximize your the conversion of those
those opportunities yeah so it sounds
like the deep underneath all of this you
have to have a really good strategy
really good plan I was teasing in the
beginning with my first question I
apologize for that but you know it’s
there’s a lot a lot of work before you
even start the programs that even to
make sure you’re in alignment
you’ve got the targeting right and the
messaging right and you’re not T tight
on your marketing click not too loose
there’s a lot going on before you even
even create your first program yeah yeah
definitely I don’t think you know what
is also important is you know you can
have the right the frameworks the right
processes in place you’re the right
target in strategy you know but if
you’ve not got the right content the
right messaging you know tailored to
those personas you know if you’ve not
got engaging cut through you know kind
of ideas and that creatively delivered
them you know once you get the
opportunity to you know reach that
prospect or customer through you know
the various tactics that we use within
these programs then you know you can
fail at that last kind of a little
really
you know so being relevant content and
strategies yet is key just as much as
the technology the processes you know
and the frameworks that are used and a
fairly standard within sort of APM type
programs No
so you’ve probably seen some very
interesting examples of a VM in play it
can you share some some case study
examples people have done it well then
maybe even some that people have learned
some lessons that’s it that’s good you
know – yeah I mean I think you know for
incentive kind of things I’ve seen
you know externally you know different
events and you know seminars I’ve kind
of attended and you know I saw a great
AVM case study from Intel lash years at
the Oracle customer experience event in
Chicago and you know and that they
shared a great case study about what
they’re doing in terms of their
processes their persona development you
know how they start to use different
types of data both for account
identification but you know starting to
map context to account records within
marketing automation and CRM so they
were kind of really sophisticated and
you know from start to end the other
really solid process you know if we look
closer to home you know in some of the
clients that we work with you know we’ve
done some really exciting work for
Juniper a couple years ago from their
Juniper Networks where we were looking
to raise awareness of a particular
solution within that top 40 accounts and
what was kind of unique about that
particular campaign and that kind of
program was it was about bringing two
different audiences together within the
different enterprises it was about
targeting network people network
engineers and is about targeting product
directors and getting both of those to
the table within the organization that
they were looking to reach because
without targeting both of those and
bringing them together you know juniper
solution year wouldn’t get activators
and it wouldn’t go to the next stage you
know so you know we did a you know a
tailored program of activities you know
it was part of the wider
campaign that reached all audiences but
the program that reached those top 40
was you know highly personalized we sent
these like mini drones to both of the
different audiences you know we sent
them collateral that was about engaging
and bringing those two audiences
together you know so so again that was a
you know it adds playlet messaging to
the right audience here we use your
creative engagement kind of techniques
and direct mail to get that kind of cook
through yeah and you know if we look at
you know kind of wider strategies you
know one of the clients that we work
with called Trelleborg they’re a big
global engineering conglomerate and we
work with a business unit within
Trelleborg which is called Trelleborg
arena in infrastructure and they sell
you know docking systems you know marine
and poor infrastructure technology you
know now you’ve become within our agency
and you know within the industry kind of
one of the poster child that we hold up
as a client vectors or integrated
marketing really well but has you know
marketing technology marketing
automation and you know the right
content really scoring lead nurturing
kind of in the heart of what we do and
you know they’ve been on a
transformation journey over the last
eight years you know it started with you
know getting up tight alignment to
marketing in sales you know defining
what year the different stage the funnel
were you’re looking to put metrics
against that so they could become more
measurable within their programs and you
know we did things like path to purchase
analysis where yeah we analyzed the data
within marketing automation to
understand you know what point did
people enter the buying process you know
will be part of the same account or you
know unique contacts in different parts
of that account and we looked at what
content was converting and you know we
were looking at you know how long that
customer journey was taking so we could
optimize you know content make sure we
have the right amount of content to
support that timeline and you know
they’re you know they’ve been highly
successful you know and growing the
business for him you know putting those
technologies and those approaches in
place
and you’re the big focus for the next
couple of years with them is to you know
advance a BM to the next level really so
you’re looking to bring in your
depersonalization into their website you
know through integration with marketing
automation and CRM and you know having
you know more sales alerts and triggers
and through analyzing digital body
language you know so when people engage
with the right type of content at the
right stage of the funnel we haven’t
indicating that account is potentially
marketer ready to specify project and
you know redesigning the nurture tracks
you know so we can start to deliver the
right content at the right time and and
also looking at things like account
based scoring so you know within
automation and particularly this client
yet we score the individual but we’re
not scoring the account that person is
part of so you’re not something we’re
looking at and also starting to bring in
accounts you know intent data as well so
how do we start to identify account that
you know could be in market and you know
in the next kind of six to twelve months
and how do we intercept them once were
and you know being able to identify
those buying signals kind of in market
so that’s one you know one account which
is embracing it all that was a ten by
the way that pays for sharing all that I
it’s good stuff not a lot of rich def of
other touches and so forth one of the
questions I have is you mentioned top
forty so that’s you know when I hear the
word account based marketing I think of
marketing meaning you know prospects but
the reality is that the effective ABM
programs are maybe even more valuable
with the current customers and getting
them deeper into the relationship and
cross-selling and so forth yeah I mean I
think you know we kind of see you know
how ABM approaches and techniques can be
utilized you know within two parts of
the other kind of the customer journey
if you like you’ve got the the journey
that somebody takes Rome knock first
quick or my first engagement through to
purchase and then you know
once somebody becomes a customer you
know how do you start to unboard those
customers effectively in the early
stages and you know I don’t find you
know cross-sell upsell kind of
opportunities and then you know as part
of the longer-term customer lifecycle
how do you start to bring in you know
ABM at the right time in the right
account to kind of grow you know share
of wallet increase penetration of you
know the number of contacts and people
that you’re engaging with within that
account and that can be you know within
specific territories or trying to you
know shift the focus and the share of
wallet from one country and getting into
another country or one business unit
into another business unit so you know
there are you know we kind of see it as
you know is wandering it or hopefully
somebody goes on and how do you maximize
value of that experience and that
customer journey forum you know
opportunity to enlarge yeah there seems
to be a whole landing expand opportunity
yeah
seeing that you know sort of more and
more really and particularly in the
account enterprise companies where you
know they can you know add an extra ten
million to the bottom line just by
increasing their show wallet within one
account by you know five to ten percent
yeah that’s whether you’re low hanging
fruit says and I think it often gets
neglected it you know there’s a lot of
focus on campaigns and activity to drive
net new customers into the funnel but
then you know existing customers often
get neglected clearance you know kind of
balancing your clearly and I think you
know going back to the point you
mentioned about you know top 40 and you
know how commonly accounts get targeted
you know in the kind of planning
approach that we kind of used with
clients when we build a you know fully
integrated your large-scale campaign you
know we typically use a you know
clearing kind of model where you know
are tearful will represent you know the
large number of people that we want to
reach within that campaign which could
be you know tens of thousands you know
that’s kind of where 70% of that and the
number of contacts and accounts are and
you know we drop down into covert tier
two and three where it might be you know
your top 500 you top 1000 and then we
kind of drop down into you know that
kind of tool on where you know it could
be the top 10 accounts it probably the
top 50 account and we then customize the
program to fit those different tiers so
you know the Tier four you know we’ll be
exposed to a whole range of different
integrated channels near those tier twos
you know might get reached through
things like account based targeting
display media where we’re using IP
targeting to reach them we might look at
things like CRM targeting where we
upload account or email addresses within
platforms like LinkedIn or Twitter and
then when we get down to that you don’t
that kind of top tier that’s here one
and yeah that’s where we might need to
sort of more high touch programs where
it’s your combination of email Direct
Mail and your telemarketing integration
okay can’t follow up at the right time
and those are more personalized
the more engaging the more interactive
and again with some account programs or
campaign programs we’ve even gone as far
as no integrating traditional activity
so whether that’s out at home appetizing
you know close to you know the different
business parks or where we know there’s
a high concentration of those key
accounts and so so that’s typically how
we blend you know kind of ABM approaches
or targets and approaches within a and
you know a fully integrated campaign
that is looking to reach as much as that
total market opportunity and a number of
accounts as possible
Thanks and you mentioned a darting
system companies so usually tech
companies need to be tech companies seem
to be the ones that are going after the
digital programs heavily what other
industries have you seen that are using
ABM successfully um I mean we see you
know sort of ABM used across you know
lots of different industries I think you
know the technology industry tended to
be more of a kind of the early adopters
so I think generally in terms of
marketing maturity they tend to be the
ones that are more advanced to their you
know digital outreach and yeah I’ll use
or new technology like marketing
automation and but then you know we have
clients that are in banking and you know
in industry engineering and we see the
IBM kind of pop up you know kind of in
all of those really I think you know
wherever there’s a you know a large
purchase with a long kind of buying
cycle you know it tends to be kind of
more relevant really so you know it can
work across industry and in some cases
you know we have we have you know
Trelleborg is an example where we work
with different to the business units and
you know they’re probably in some way
doing advanced or advanced things and we
do with clients and other industries and
I think a lot of it isn’t you know
having the right team you
right people with the right mindset and
feel and potentially with with with
teleport and the movement very new
infrastructure division you have Richard
Hepworth who’s the CEO the president of
that business unit and you know he’s an
innovator you know he’s passionate about
driving change though is very good at
aligning marketing in sales and you know
getting them and you know behind that
kind of single vision that it needs
people to sort of take risks as well
really so you know often there’s a
smaller nimble more agile teams and you
know can be doing just as advanced
things as you know clients and the high
tech sectors yeah I believe it so what
about switching gears a little bit GDP
are just thinking about your your
position geographically with what are
you seeing as the challenges that GDP or
has brought toward you know ABM
marketing or things to be a be cautious
of yeah well I think you know that data
you know is a double-edged sword really
you know um I think you know the
technologies that we’ve seen in the last
couple years I driven by data you know
predict analytics tools you know that
data is critical to making those work
and you have been out to access those
big sort of data sources so you know I
think you know what GDP are which we’ve
seen off the you know in the UK and in a
mere with a lot of our clients they’re
you know in the last couple years I’ve
got legislation is and you know it’s
really sort of impacted how companies
are using data and it’s making them sort
of rethink you know how they build their
contact databases and and and I think
what it what it has done for me is and I
think you know penny started to drop
with companies now is that you know if
you’re going to have that you know if
you’re going to get the right Commission
with the right contacts and accounts and
you’re going to have that dialogue
you’ve got to deliver content it’s going
to deliver value and and it’s about
getting that
frequency right it’s about getting the
quality of the content engaging content
content is linked to the right issues
and trends in the market that people
want to discover and I think if you
deliver that then people will want to
engage with your brand and will give you
permission to do that so you know with a
lot of our clients in the UK Damir you
as they’ve gone through the GDP I
exercise they’ve lost you know 70 80 60
% of their contact records and from
their databases but in some ways you
know it has been a good exercise because
it’s about you know focusing in on the
contacts that actually want to have a
relationship with with your brand and
those are the ones that will hopefully
drive better engagement and better
conversions longer-term but I think you
know if GDPs been around for what
probably just over a year year and a
half now in a mirror and what we’re
starting to see bad practices start to
emerge again
you know within the first few months of
GDP Arkham again
I had no spam emails for three months
yeah now it’s happening again so I think
you know it brings its challenges but I
think you know if you’re a company that
wants to do dialogue marketing right and
then good good content and managing your
contact preferences right and will be I
think that they’ll be the ones I’m going
to succeed so they’ll be insurance to
happens when the law comes in and I
think it’s California the California
primary law and you can see whether it
has the same impact or whether it you
know it comes into and then within a few
years you know not not much has changed
which i think is what happened
definitely the mayor and if you read
invites California goes that Silver’s
involved in expanded so I wanted to you
know think about gdpr think about this
segment so the the b2b segment I have
seen the non tech world is much larger
than the tech world so there’s lots of
opportunities for growth in digital no
targeted marketing
in some of these other industries and
then GDP our skin with special
California it’s going to be become more
of an issue the technology is changing
the targeting capabilities the
intelligence that we have access to the
speed of our systems so putting your
your crystal ball hat on for a moment
what do you see as the progress what are
the changes that we’ll see in the next
you know one year one year five years
what do you see happening and well I do
have concerns over you know kind of data
and the impact it’s going to have you
know longer term and I think you know
we’ve had massive sort of privacy issues
in the last couple years particularly or
what happened with Facebook in Cambridge
I’m Whitaker and yeah the whole thing
that kind of happened there and I think
you know we’ve got we’ve got to be
careful that if we enforce data and
compliance too much then yeah we were at
risk of kind of losing you know the ad
industry in a lot of ways because you
know the services that are provided to
people now you know there’s a value
exchange that’s happening kind of in the
background and if people are going to
use Facebook you know it’s a free
service and you know you have to realize
that the value of exchanges that people
going to Facebook is going to use your
data for targeting for advertising and
to offer that free service they make
their revenue Sur advertising and the
more we restrict privacy and compliance
then year that arose the appetising
dollar and then that means that you’re
the free services that we all have
access to online we’ll have to start to
pay for so I think you know we need yeah
I agree with a lot of privacy and
permission but if we go too far in gdpr
and the California royal is just one
part of what’s going to happen then we
could go too far and you know all these
great digital services are about access
to will have to pay for and you know and
those targeted experiences that we get
to advertising in digital media which
sometimes are valuable to us with no
we won’t experience anymore and we’ll
have enough free internet and I think
you’re not be great in some ways but I
think in other ways it could cause more
damage to to the services that people
receive you know and the ad industry
starts that’s one one thing that I’m
keeping an eye on you know I think you
know when it comes to you know
technology and ticular kind of ABM I
think we’ll see more of a shift to you
know inbound kind of ABM and you know
companies being less focused on the
outbound and inbound and we know that
when we target organizations you know
there’s only ever probably you know five
to ten percent of that total opportunity
that total market actually in market and
ready to purchase so I think you know
we’ll see more advanced technology that
can manage that inbound ABM process you
know bedding in things like intent data
intent signals into the other marketing
automation platforms or the APN
platforms you know connecting the dots
across all those different systems I’ve
used within APN from the a display
marketing social marketing and you know
the whole kind of automated automation
process and you know connecting them
better deliver a better experience as
part of you know the ABM experience that
our brand wants to deliver but also the
customer you know want to kind of
experience I think you know we’ll see
them and machine learning and cognitive
discourage really get more bedded into
those platforms to make them more
intelligent and you know that some
phenomena excited about and but I think
you know by a dynamics are going to
change as well and you know we’re
starting to see more Millennials and you
know that Generation X taking a bigger
role and a bigger influence in the
research process and you know
influencing and contributing to that
kind of purchase decision and that’s
only going to get bigger and we know
that those audiences engage and interact
and operate you know completely
differently to you know the way that we
do kind of showing our age and put and
but at the same time it’s going to be
exciting and so when so yeah I’m excited
about a few
books and the technology that I think we
will see emerge in the next few years to
manage those types of data new audience
and more advanced IBM integration yeah I
think it’s wonderful I think as you said
so nicely if you can use the data for
good and not for evil it’s not bad yeah
I think I think it’s about getting that
balance here yeah because I mean and
it’s you know and at the end of the day
it’s about the recipient it’s about the
prospect and getting them relevant
things timely and everything’s that’s a
feature I mean it’s a nice it’s a nice
feature for them if they get bombarded
wherever they go and whatever and
whatever then it not so much tricky but
wonderful wonderful so any other final
thoughts because you’ve exceeded my my
expectations it’s been a nice nice
discussion and well I think you know did
this kind of one last thing to share
which is you know kind of at the heart
of kind of what we’re doing within our
agency and I think you know is key to
helping agencies to helping clients
improve their initial marketing maturity
and you know looked at how the
integrations are ABM into those programs
is you know having that digital
marketing transformation at marketing
transformation roadmap in place and you
know we’re we’ve seen the last few years
companies go through digital
transformation and how they improve the
operations and you spin up new digital
services through the gator and machine
learning you know and often marketing
and marketing transformation has been
neglected and you know we’ve we’ve
recently launched a new offering in that
area which is designed to help clients
build their transformation roadmap and
in the next few weeks we’re launching a
tool called post modernized calm which
is an online free tool which will help
clients you know identify what different
use cases should be within their roadmap
and it’ll help
build you know two to three years
digital marketing transformation roadmap
and we’ve got loads of great content in
there and I think it’d be a tool that
would be hopefully relevant to your
listeners and and will help you know
define the strategies that make it part
of their transformation plan and you
know I believe that companies that
define that transformation plan you know
put the right action plans in place you
know and achieve a greater level of
marketing maturity you know deliver
better campaigns increase your the
performance of those campaign and
ultimately you know contribute more
marketing attribute attribute or revenue
and you know to the to the companies
that we work for wonderful that’s that’s
great and we appreciate thank you I’ll
put some links in and happy to work to
share the the knowledge it’s wonderful
it’s a pleasure speaking with you and I
look forward to speaking soon with you
in the team I think you get the most
things going on there yeah you know I
started that’d be great and you know
something again for the opportunity I’ve
enjoyed the chat and you know good luck
with with what you’re doing in the sense
of contents a great source of content
excellent thank you again edible boxing
okay all the best Bob thank you