Interview with Matt Heinz

hi this is Bob Samuels founder of techconnectr techconnectr is a

transparent marketplace and campaign
management platform a best-of-breed b2b

lead generation solutions we’ve
partnered with serious decisions and the

b2b MX to bring you wisdom from leading
account based marketing thought leaders

to that end I would like to introduce
you to Matt Heinz president of Heinz

marketing and one of the smartest
marketers I know Matt it’s a pleasure to

speak with you how are you today hey I’m
great man how are you excellent it’s a

beautiful day it’s a beautiful time of
year happy new year so far so good I

can’t believe we’re already as we record
this it’s already late

January I feel like we were just
watching the Rose Bowl and here we are

already you know bumping up against
Valentine’s Day it’s nuts it’s amazing

it’s amazing so ABM I’m still a hot topic
you know the coordination between sales

and marketing is really interesting to
me and people overlook it they either

take it for granted or they think they
can’t influence it but it’s got to be a

huge part of the whole determination of
whether the projects are successful or

not well certainly comes up a lot I may
think you know we’ve gotten to the point

now where everybody is talking about ABM
whether they understand what it is or

not and people have different different
ranges of definitions for what it is

some people think a very narrow
definition some people basically just

apply ABM to anything that has to do
with enterprise marketing you know but I

think the I’ve always thought if you’re
doing sales and marketing together well

when you’re doing named account
marketing well it includes the far greater

level of integration between sales and
marketing at every stage of the pipeline

not just when leads are handed off or
not just when you’re supporting you know

the sales process from a sales
enablement standpoint it also includes a

much more active consideration of the
buying committee right which means not

just knowing who those members of the
buying

are but managing them separately
communicating with them you know with

segments and messages but then
understanding where are the cohorts

within those buying committees where are
the groups of people that either agree

already or don’t agree but you need the
beauty as a seller need to build

consensus amongst them and that is a
difficult thing to do and to execute but

that is a key part of where a lot of
companies are seeing some very

significant increases in results both
philosophy of deals as well as

conversion rates of named accounts when
they’re doing it well excellent so by

the way before I go too far I forgot it
I didn’t introduce you as well as I

should have so can you give me a little
bit of a a little bit of background

about who you are where you been what
perspective you come from with this

whole sure sure sure so I’m Matt Heinz
started Heinz marketing a little over 11

years ago and you know we focused purely
on helping b2b companies build more

predictable scalable pipelines so we
work with marketing organizations to

think about how am I going to deliver
revenue impact for the organization do

that in a consistent way do that in a
profitable way and do that in a way that

can scale as the needs and goals of the
organization grow as well beautiful so

getting back to what you were saying
before about coordination so it seems

like I’m picturing in a bowtie sort of a
picture were there’s a lot of people

that need to be coordinated with on the
on the on the client your client side

including the sales and marketing and
all of the key stakeholders there and

then there’s key stakeholders on their
prospect side there’s lots of them too

yeah and I think that you know
oftentimes and we build lists of targets

for you know our target organizations
and we just throw them into campaigns

and treat them as in as individuals
right so you’ll have this named account

you’re trying to reach and you’ll have
maybe six seven people there and you’re

setting in the same message and you’re
not doing anything to coordinate

behavior across all of them so first of
all if you’re talking to a CFO versus a

CTO versus you know potentially a system
analyst right someone further down the

organization they all work for the same
company they may have they may all

ultimately agree that they need your
solution to solve something but they’re

very different
in terms of their approaches they’re

different in terms of the problems they
solve our problems they’re addressing at

least so having a segmented way of
talking to them is first and foremost

but I think also understanding how to
communicate amongst those cohorts of

people within that organization is is
critical and thinking about like what

they have in common thinking about the
message you’re gonna put in front of

them that’s that relates to all of them
and then execution around that how are

you going to execute in a way that
actually gets them to talk to each other

about that topic again easier said than
done that’s super important so ask you

as far as reaching out to the the
prospects do you recommend going real

high going real low and between all of
the above I guess it’s not an or thing

it’s really a whole coordinated effort
it really is I mean I think you know in

many cases you know you’ll have people
or lower in the organization that not

only feel more acutely the pain of
what’s wrong or the pain of what’s not

working but in most organizations it
isn’t you know it may be the CTO that is

making the final decision but she’s
usually looking to her team to go and

bring her ideas to bring her solutions
to identify the problem and then

identify solution so you know a lot of
people say well if you’re selling into

enterprise you need to start at the top
and find the you know most important

person well that eventually you need to
be able to have that conversation but

you may actually build internal momentum
and consensus by starting with people

that will actually pick up the phone
people that will actually are replying to

your email and people actually who
acutely feel the problem that you can

potentially solve right so I guess
really the goal is gonna be to try to

get someone who will be a champion and
odds are it’s gonna be down low but if

you’ve got someone up top that can be a
champion that’s pretty cool

well every organization you’re selling
into is gonna have a different culture

right I mean some are going to be very
differential to people that are higher

than they are
every organization selling shoes is

gonna have its own politics it’s gonna
have someone you know there may be

someone junior the organization who just
quite frankly is not c-level material

it’s been in the company for 20 years
and everybody listens to because they

know where all the skeletons are buried
and so I mean as seller

first you have to understand like
whether or not that company has a big

enough problem to solve right just
because they’re in health care just

because you sell a healthcare solution
doesn’t mean every health care company

is your prospect so understanding the
context into which you are selling the

attributes and characteristics of a of a
company that needs you that’s really

important as a starting point but then
to find yes you’re going to define that

champion to find that person that’s
willing to not only tell you how

decisions are made and how buying
happens in the organization but also

guide you to the other people they’re
gonna be key to the buying committee to

build consensus I mean you can you can
call an email all day long just you know

by blunt-force trama get head against
the wall or you can find whoever that is

in the organization who’s willing to do
that for you one of the members of the

buying committee that many people ignore
or don’t even think about with

enterprise is you know the executive
assistant for a decision maker a lot of

people treat the executive system as a
gatekeeper but oftentimes he or she is

actually a catalyst like their job is to
is to is to be a gatekeeper of the

distractions to that individual and if
you’re coming with something that

actually solves a core problem you could
have them be the champion you can have

them be the hero of bringing a great
idea back to the boss very good so what

you brought a good point about they have to
have a problem that you’re gonna be able

to solve them how can you figure out if
they have the problem what kind of

problem they have well I think there’s a
couple things one I mean you could

certainly ask too I think if if there
are sometimes external signs or signals

or trigger events that indicate that
someone is exploring something like

let’s use account based marketing as an
example right I mean oftentimes you know

we will I’ve got alerts set up and
LinkedIn that tell me when anyone on

LinkedIn in particular filters joins an
ABM group on LinkedIn now maybe I’m

LinkedIn groups I don’t think are very
well managed they’re not great tools to

participate in but if someone joins an
ABM group that is a sign that they’re

thinking about ABM it’s a sign that
somehow they’re either starting it or

thinking about it or getting into it and
want support from other

so that’s a signal that I can key in on
right if someone says it joins that

group I can say wow you know here’s a
workbook we put together to help people

get started on a VMware here’s here’s a
blog post highlighting reasons why many

ABM programs stall or fail right so I
can I can go back and I can engage

people with something of interest and
not everyone is gonna be you know in

that in that context but I think you’re
gonna find a lot more efficiency and a

lot higher conversion rate when you can
use those kind of trigger events I think

it’s brilliant and also gives you
something to talk about you know at

least they know ABM and and then the
context of the article and the group or

whatever maybe more specifics or
something to talk about yep brilliant

as far as so some of the things that
came up since we last talked so so gdpr

is a big thing that people have to deal
with it’s it’s a it’s something that

required CCPA California and Boston and
so for Massachusetts are all coming off

board – what are you seeing as far as
the challenges or things that well I

think for two things one I think it just
this just reinforces why it’s important

for any company any brand to really
invest in the the technology stack

behind their marketing programs I mean
you can no longer get away with just

having you know good emails and good
value-added practices integrating your

system so you have sort of one common
view of the customer and prospect I mean

that is just now it’s it’s gone from
being a good best practice to being

table stakes if you don’t want to get
sued right

but I think that what’s great about gdpr
and CCPA is that we these are not these

are not in conflict with just the way
you should be treating your customers at

all in the first place right yes you
know it’s gonna require some work to get

up to that level because our systems
maybe in general and in the in and out

of the box don’t necessarily talk to
each other but you know if you are

creating value for your prospects if
you’re creating value in respecting the

time and sort of interest of your
prospects these regulations should not

be a problem they’re just reinforcing
and and separating you with your good

practices from those that really don’t
want to bother with computed practices

so I you know I think overall it’s a
very good thing I think overall it’s

going to increase engagement rates from
the prospects that matter for the

prospects that want to hear from you and
that’s gonna be that’s gonna be a

benefit to companies that embrace it
necessary evil it’s actually something

that’s useful
it helps weed out some of the bad

players and and and it helps you get in
front of people that really really are

interested in hearing their message
which is all you want anyway absolutely

makes sense and it and it makes sense
from both sides because everybody’s a

consumer too and you can appreciate the
controls there so what have you seen and

I think we’d spoke how many months ago
but what’s what’s hot out there what are

you seeing that’s interesting as far as
methods as far as people as far as

technology well I I think we’re finally
getting to a point where AI is becoming

sort of more practical for you know an
early adopter marketer I think the idea

of using artificial intelligence to
identify signals has been around for a

while but I think we’re now finally
getting that tool and where you can say

okay if I see this signal here’s how it
gets integrated in my systems here’s

where it tells me what to do next
so I feel like artificial intelligence

is gonna play a really big role for
marketers over the next you know 12 to

24 months as a means of focusing on
quality versus quantity you know doing

less of sending every email to everybody
and hoping someone responds and more

getting the right email to the right
person at the right time and not having

to manually set all that up and do the
manual segmentation the the other piece

that it doesn’t require technology at
all it’s just a greater alignment

between sales and marketing I think that
you know it’s historically we’ve seen

the sales funnel split horizontally
through the middle where some marketing

owns the top of the funnel and sales
owns the bottom and just you know leads

get thrown over the wall and collateral
occasionally I think the most the most

successful the most efficient sales and
marketing teams today look at that

funnel actually split it vertically with
a diagonal bent we’re marketing owns

maybe the majority of the top of the
funnel sales may own the majority

bottom but there are roles and
responsibilities for both groups at

every stage and so you’re in so instead
of having sort of disjointed strategies

an overlap of responsibilities in the
middle you have a more integrated a more

thoughtful approach to prospects that
creates consistency of the message

they’re seeing at the right place in the
buying journey and so especially when

you’re doing those named account selling
especially in that ABM kind of context

to be able to drive that kind of
integration is just critical and it’s it

to make that even to make even the
further point around that when you’ve

got a marketing organization
it isn’t defining its value based on the

number of Form fills they get but
defining its value based on what kind of

marketing influence can happen on closed
deals I’ve seen some companies where you

know they’re focused on such small mark
segments of the market the marketing

team focus is more of their energy on
sales enablement than they do lead gen

like lead gen is a secondary goal to you
know influencing deal velocity and

conversion rate and so I you know that
may be an extreme example but I think

that mentality especially coming from
marketing but for sales and marketing

teams working together is really
critical

so when you say sales enablement what do
you mean but I mean everybody to me

everybody’s either in sales or in sales
enablement sure I mean I can a brought

in a broad definition you could say well
if I’m generating leads that’s enabling

sales to do their thing and so sure I
look at sales enablement I think what am

i doing to increase the efficiency of my
sales organization and what am i doing

to increase the efficacy of my sales
organization so put another way what

percent of my sales teams time is spent
actively selling what am i doing to put

you know process and content and tools
in front of my sales team to help them

spend more time selling and then in that
time they are selling what am i doing to

make sure they as effective as possible
right so make sure that they’re not just

you know hey I’m actively selling but
I’m selling to the wrong person I’m

selling with the wrong message I don’t
have a good follow up to maintain the

momentum that I had from the trade show
last week so you know sales enablement

can mean a lot of things and I think you
could clearly put a lot of you know

marketing’s activity in terms of driving
pipeline into that bucket so maybe it

becomes so large of a definition that’s
not really very useful

so instead of that I would just say
listen as a marketer what are you doing

where are you focusing that has an
endgame of a result you can buy a beer

with right because if all you’re doing
is focusing on lead volume for lis

volumes sake if all you’re doing is
creating web traffic hoping that that

converts into sales or leads somewhere
that’s not as effective as efficient as

you could be right so the so the the
helping the sales enablement could be in

terms of having some sales materials
some training maybe maybe maybe getting

like I said getting getting the right
leads in there that the the focused

leads that the salespeople can target
and so forth so whatever it takes

yep love them be more efficient and more
effective and it seems to make sense

that marketing should report to sales
you think so

I mean they they have the same goal at
the end of the day I would hope and it

just seems to make sense well you know I
could argue that you know there are

segments of the finance team that whose
goal is to facilitate sales so like a

procurement department or a legal
department who’s reviewing contracts is

certainly there to support sales goal as
well but they don’t necessarily report

it as sales
I think the reporting structure things

like reporting structure things like
having service level agreements between

sales and marketing like those those
become forcing functions when you don’t

already have the culture that needs to
exist to drive results so if you’ve got

a CMO that understands that revenue
revenue outcome is what’s most important

right if it doesn’t mean that sales is
subservience of marketing or vice versa

just means we’re all in it for the same
reasons and so you know if we’re saying

well then all these groups need to
report the sales what we’re really doing

is we’re saying well because sales is
there when the they’ll get signed

then they own everything and that’s not
true so I think that more important than

work structure more important than
having legal contracts between

departments is having the culture in
place that already supports a revenue

centric environment that allows people
to put their egos aside that in many

cases you know you know so it allows you
to take the idea of attribution the

saying like let’s
let’s ignore attribution for a minute

let’s assume that all of these deals are
gonna require sales and marketing to get

done we don’t really care if you know
sales swooped in at the last minute and

got the deal down we don’t really care
that you know marketing provided 40

percent or 45 percent attribution on the
deal get the deal done it’s gonna take

all of us to do it right and and to your
point about keeping them separate they

are separate skill sets yeah and I think
that’s where you know I think when you

sometimes you see you know inside sales
teams reporting in to marketing and

marketing considering a PDR function as
a lead development phone like

theoretically that’s a really good idea
in practice you now have marketers

managing sales people and that is a very
different management skill you now have

a sales team that is no longer part of
the sales organization that is no longer

has a direct implicit career path that
may not be getting the sales training

that they should be if they weren’t part
of the sales team so that’s the idea

breaks down and so if I don’t have to
own as a marketer I don’t have to own

the BDR team or this inside sales team
if I’ve got agreement with sales on what

is a good lead and when we generate a
good lead what does that mean and when

do the BD RS follow up with it and how
do they follow up with that I mean

that’s not something you’re going to
solve with a 30-minute meeting it’s not

that let me you’re gonna solve by
writing up a playbook and handing it off

to your sales team and saying please
follow this so there’s a huge cultural

element to making that work and I don’t
think short term things like you know

SLA or well we’ll just have marketing on
the team our long term are in the long

term interest of Musk the key like you
said the the the goals need to be things

that you can buy a beer with so you
can’t buy a beer with a sales

opportunity although that’s as far as
you can go as far as marketing goes no I

think marketing I I’ve seen
organizations where let’s say it’s the

last let’s say it’s the last week of the
quarter and marketing is where the sales

team is just grinding it out trying to
close deals and let’s say there’s one

deal that’s gonna make or break the
quarter like the last few days of the

quarter and this one deal it’s so close
and you got one member of the buying

committee who just isn’t quite
comfortable yet saying yes

so why
wouldn’t marketing be willing to step

back and create content for an audience
of one

in that context right like the most
inefficient thing you could do as a

traditional content marketer who’s all
about clicks and impressions and views

what if you got viewership for one
person and that message customized to

them got the deal done like that’s that
may be one of the most efficient things

marketing and do at least in that day or
that week so I think marketing can have

an impact through the entire fall we’re
not even talking about customer success

here right like and I think you know you
could argue in a mature company sales is

a lagging indicator of great customer
success so what are we doing as

marketers to leverage that right to
increase leaves to increase referrals to

increase throughput to help justify the
decisioning increase confidence from

those late stage prospects that they’re
making a good decision that’s a good

point and like you said the customers
and the land and expand and they’re

growing those I keep forgetting about
that but that’s that’s it that’s even

more efficient more effective yeah needs
there so the one-to-one marketing I

would think would fall into sales but it
doesn’t necessarily have to no no I I

and I think you know a look at these
enterprise deals and you know before I

mean we talked into think about sales
process and you think about your big

complex deal in the first stage of
something around loosening the status

quo or you know qual find the problem or
helping to understand help the prospect

understand the problem they do or don’t
know that they have that maybe the first

like official part of the buying process
but if that’s stage one then stage zero

is just getting their attention it’s
just getting their attention and earning

some level of engagement and that could
just be based on content that could be

based on the fact that I invited you to
you know a cocktail reception at the

industry conference next month where we
didn’t talk about work but you just got

to know us and so now we’re not just a
name and an anonymous email now we’re a

guy that you know we’re we’re two guys
that like college football you know and

so I think that there’s there’s a whole
level of support that that initial

engagement can have that can be sales
driven and then you have a I mean you

know according to Gartner only three to
four percent of companies in any

industry are actively buying forty six
percent are poised fifty percent aren’t

worth your time at all so by you know
by the math if you get a room of

prospects together most of them are not
gonna be ready to buy so the sales team

may actually sort of work on warming up
the relationship that lay may then

nurtured by marketing for a period of
time until they’re actively ready to buy

again so I I think this is another
reason why I think that that integration

between sales and marketing at every
stage especially for more complex sales

is so so important there’s no there’s no
one specific handoff there’s a back and

forth potentially yeah I mean there’s no
it’d be so much easier look it if we

could actually manage leads in a linear
one-directional way that would be easier

if b2b buyers would actually make
decisions based on purely business and

logical reasons this would all be easier
but the world is way messier than that

one person making the buying decision
and everything it’s a very complex thing

but you still I would think you’d still
need I buy the you need to have sales

which is the own thing buyer buy a beer
with as a goal for for marketing but you

need interrupts right you need to have
somehow have measurements and rewards I

would think for all those important
things along the way into a sale

especially with the long you know six
twelve month sales cycle ya know I think

there’s a difference between measuring
marketing’s impact on revenue and

measuring how effective the marketing is
in that point in time right so I think

you know if you can separate for example
your functional dashboard from your

impact dashboard you know if you can if
you’re do using email for example as a

component of your marketing like getting
better open rates and click rates is

important if you’re gonna use the
channel might as well make it more

effective but if you go to the board
meeting and you report on opens and

clicks of emails they’re gonna think
that’s what you prioritize I think

that’s what you care about so there’s a
time and a place for all those metrics

like you’re absolutely right like you
have to you still have to make your

marketing better but I would argue that
those metrics tend to be more of an

inside the marketing team scorecard
first or something you want to take of

them in your team universes we won’t
take beating

yep that’s we’ll take him what are you
seeing as far as lead generation efforts

as far as getting the top of the funnel
filled with net name names yeah I mean

obviously that’s still for a lot of
companies that’s still a huge part of

their marketing efforts I you know I
think that it is still important though

even though you could consider like you
know getting someone aware of your

business or getting them to even sort of
download a white paper you know two

things to keep in mind it’s not just
about sending out emails or like

point-in-time random acts of marketing
to get to a lead to get to a warm lead

someone that will respond to you it’s
usually not an email or a search ad it’s

usually still a body of work that you’re
putting in front of someone to get them

willing to you know engage and then once
you engage how you follow up with that

is critical if you’ve got if you
generate a whitepaper lead which may not

be someone that sales ready
but at least like there’s probably a

reason why they were interested that white
paper if you if your sales team follows

up and says well thanks for downloading
the white paper would you like to see a

demo like that’s good not gonna get a
very good a response but if you have a

sales team that’s willing to say like
why did you download that white paper

what about that is interesting like
what’s going on in your business that

made that prescient right now that’s a
much more interesting conversation to

have so yeah I mean generating leads is
a critical part of most organizations we

work with but if you treat that just as
well let’s send out emails and forget

people to fill out forms that usually is
not something that is very sustainable

so it should be more than just a single
kind of a outreach but to more of a

whole story to tell and a whole whole
flow or a whole moving moving people

along the process I guess you got it so
and and these are my world you can get

lots of different flavors of Leadgen you
can get just data which is just people

that are the right company size industry
job function do you or whatever and then

you’ve got your MQ l’s which are people
that have raised their hand like you

said shown some interest in the topic
that they’re not I suggested in your

product or your company but you know the
topics that

so that’s a start and then deeper in the
funnel where there’s some more

verification that they have a pain maybe
and they’re the right person and maybe

it’s the right timing so each time you
go deeper in the funnel with more

specifics including you know you’re the
right person do you have a project now

within how much time each each point is
more expensive and so is it worthwhile

or you spend less money and get the the
volume and work people through yourself

different ways they cut it I guess there
is there is and I mean one of the things

you sort of bring up there is that you
know I think traditionally we think of a

lead as someone that filled out a form
someone that requested something why

couldn’t it lead be someone that you
observe has a need that you can follow

up I gave the example earlier about
people who joined the ABM groups right I

don’t have to wait for them to fill out
a form for me to engage with them like I

could reach out and say hey you know you
look like someone who’s interested in

ABM can I offer you something that might
help you along the way you know I think

you it’s especially important if you’re
gonna use that strategy that you’ve got

something of value you’ve got something
that people might otherwise have paid

for right to be able to sort of you know
get them engaged because if you call and

say hey I saw your ABM you know group
page I’d like to sell you some maybe I’m

software right I mean that’s creepy in
any context I think but I think if you

can find people that have interest find
people based on those trigger events and

buying signals elsewhere you can get a
solid stream of leads without worrying

about people filling out forms it sounds
like you’re one of those old-school

people that likes to be able to give
people something of value before you ask

them dying art Bob but it’s super
important I think you know when we work

with inside sales teams oftentimes I
will say okay like let’s assume that

there are two rules and I want you to
just these may or may not be your rules

but I want you to think about what you
would do differently than what you’re

doing today if they were in fact true
the first one is the first conversation

you have with the prospect you’re not
allowed to talk about your product or

service you can’t talk about your
company or what you sell and if they ask

the direct question then fine you can
answer it but otherwise if those things

were off the table what would you talk
about what questions would you ask like

what would you do in that converse
and secondarily when the prospect hangs

up the phone after that first call what
did you share what did you offer what

did you give them that got them to lean
back in their chair and say wow that was

that was really great I would have paid
for that I would have paid for that

information or that insight and I would
spend more time with this company or

this individual the next time they call
the next time I need ever need because I

believe I get something else valuable
again yeah that’s quite a bit different

than what I see where you’ve only got 30
seconds 45 seconds to be able to make

your pitch and you spew as much as you
can about the about the company and

product as possible hoping something
sticks well look I mean you give if you

do enough volume if you make enough
calls if you do enough activity you’re

gonna find some prospects but you worst
case you run the risk of going scorched

earth and creating such a bad reputation
with all the rest of the prospects that

they won’t talk to you
the next time but I think also you don’t

have to share everything in the first
message I mean like you know just

because you’ve got someone’s attention
doesn’t mean you have to tell them the

whole story let’s assume your elevator
pitch your elevator ride is not 90

storeys tall let’s sue its – let’s
assume they’re just on to the next level

what are you going to say that gets them
to say walk with me and tell me more

like it’s not about the whole stories
about the beginning of the story it’s

earning someone’s attention that’s why I
keep they mentioned before like this is

not about your one chance this is a body
of work what you share now has to compel

the prospect to want to spend more time
with you later today tomorrow next

week’s next month and the more clearly
you can articulate your connection and

your insights and your content with
problems they have with them being able

to see the impact that can have for
themselves in their work or is their

business the more they’re gonna
prioritize spending time with you so

it’s really that second the first
contact is really enabling that second

contact to happen and that’s when you
have the chance to get more detailed

into your your problem fix or solutions
well I’ve seen I’ve seen prospects you

know literally on the phone and instead
of in when someone says hey listen I

want to be respectful your time I know
we’ve only got five minutes left I’ve

heard prosper
you know with my and say no no this is

this is not what I expected this is
really valuable I’m canceling the next

meetings I don’t I want to keep going
right so look we’ve all got the same

amount of time every day
and you know whether you know sometimes

some of us are more intentional at than
not but you know we’re prioritizing

what’s in front of us we’re prioritizing
what’s gonna make us smarter and better

and so if you think your next call is
better than spending more time with

someone learning about a problem then
you’re gonna take that call but you know

if you if you all of a sudden realize
they’ve always talked about this is sort

of the challenging under the loosening
of the status quo if you realize after

twenty five minutes that you actually
have a problem you didn’t know that you

had or maybe you knew you had the
problem but you had not really

quantified its urgency to be solved like
I just introduced new information to you

that you may actually want to follow up
with now so that’s the best compliment

probably is hey I’ve got a little more
time let’s keep going absolutely now

it’s great beautiful so I appreciate
your time so any other words of wisdom

because I think I want to be conscious
of your time and it Wales this time yeah

no I think that I’ll go back to one of
the comments I made sort of in the

middle of the session here is the issue
of culture right I mean to create a

culture where the organization thinks
about revenue impact of their work a

culture where sales and marketing worry
less about attribution and impact and

score cards and more about what it takes
to together as a cross functional unit

create that body of work that compels
prospects to authentically want to

engage with them you know I think you
can build all the best you know lead

routing structures you can build SQL
BtoB ql definitions all you want but if

you don’t address and improve the
culture that that is being in what that

is being executed within your forget
you’re not you’re not going to be able

to achieve sustainable repeatable
predictable results beautiful thank you

for Matt I appreciate it it’s always a
pleasure thank you for your time good

man I appreciate this thank you Cheers